Ever wondered who the Prime Minister rings when even they don't know the answer? Gary sits down with Dame Juliet Gerrard, former Chief Science Advisor to the PM, who had a front row seat to the mosque shootings, the White Island tragedy and COVID-19 from day one. She talks candidly about the biscuit tin and Post-it notes she used to gather ideas from quiet voices in a room, the discipline of giving "good enough" advice before a decision is made rather than perfect advice too late, and why her job was never to filter the truth for "the greater good".

They get into the tricky line between scientific consensus and values-based decisions (abortion gets a mention), whether Aotearoa was ever really ready for a pandemic, the ongoing vaccine divide, and what AI means for healthcare going forward. Gary (never one to miss a height joke) also tries out a theory from his wife on Juliet, and asks the question everyone wants answered: does it still sting when politicians ignore the science? Her new book Front Row Seat unpacks it all.

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